Onyx [Mun] (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
onyxdotexe) wrote2015-09-24 05:21 pm
onyxdotexe) wrote2015-09-24 05:21 pm
Rebuttal on Johan Andersen
Alright, so, I've been hearing some things about the character of Johan Andersen (from Yu-Gi-Oh! GX) being called a Mary-Sue. And beyond the fact that this is kinda insulting, especially since I like him, it's really just... y'know, flat out wrong. Thank to some help I've gotten up the major points I tend to hear, so here we go.
This one, I'll give you. Johan's introduction and mingling is rather rapid, and I won't deny that. I will note, however, that it's not strange; a lot of new characters just sort of get randomly tossed in to get right to the action. It generally only tends to be an actual problem if it's with a character flawed in other ways, but it is something that's kind of off. I won't argue that.
This one, however, I will not give you, and for a couple of reasons. The first one is actually simple; namely, that this is actually truth in television. In real life, real people can meet, be together for a couple hours, and be so close friends you'd think they'd known each other years. I should know. I used to have a friend or two like this. It's uncommon, but it's completely possible. Sure, it can be used totally wrong, but it's not here. Why do I know that? Because of the second reason.
We have episodes and episodes of proof that Judai makes friends that fast. Look at the episodes, watch him, and notice that Judai basically all but instantly makes friends. Even with people who treat him rudely, he considers them as his friends. Something like this then is not only possible, but honestly pretty plausible; with how rapidly he makes normal friends, if he clicks with someone like he so very clearly does with Johan, it would be strange if they weren't that close after a short time.
First of all, that's not entirely true. Yes, Pegasus might have regarded Johan as strong, but most of the focus on Johan's strength is through his deck; which, of course, is why it fell apart when Rainbow Dragon was gone. Yes, he is the highest ranking of the most notoriously strength-based branch of Duel Academia, but again... while he certainly has skill, it's pretty clearly hinted that a lot more of it weighs on his actual deck.
And that's not a bad thing, necessarily; in any game, skill is only a part of what you can do. Familiarity with the tools you have, on top of the strength of those tools, can and often do make a big part of it. But it means that the credit Johan has is only partially his; even Johan himself accepts and admits that, pointing out that he'd be nothing without his "family". Hell, even the people talking about his strength talk more about his deck most of the time.
As for the onscreen thing... of course we haven't seen his losses. Do you really think they have the time or patience to show us every single duel anyone ever does? Or that we'd be anything but bored by seeing the routine losses that didn't have something big wrapped up in them? No, of course not. And that's why, much like sleeping, bathing, using the bathroom, or other routine things, we left to assume and infer that it happens unless told otherwise. Because otherwise, we'd be bored out of our skulls.
On top of that, we see him dueling pleasantly maaaaaybe twice. Every other duel is for his very life and survival, and we see him struggling and clawing for the wins, on top of coming out of it hurt or suffering... so, you know, those are the kind of things he really can't lose without plot repercussions. It's no different from being saved in cutscenes in games because your PC isn't supposed to die yet.
But are they really? We're told in the past that Judai has been able to hear the voices of Duel Monsters since his childhood and his casual chatting with Winged Kuriboh makes it pretty clear that Judai clearly still talks to them even now, just offscreen (see above about showing us every mundane thing that happens). It's easy enough to figure out that they're probably quiet in duels so that Judai can concentrate...
...but Johan, on the other hand, only sees these other spirits in duels. Only Ruby can manifest in a spirit form to him, and she can't talk. Doesn't it make sense that his "family" would thus be far more likely to talk in the one place they can -- in duels -- when they clearly can't talk to him just through or from the cards like Judai's monsters clearly can?
I mean, think of it like this way. You have two friends, one who you see every day and one who you see once a month. You go to the movies with these two friends, one at a time. Aren't you more likely to be quiet and watch the movie with the first one, knowing you can talk to them later, but more likely to be talkative and chat to the second one, knowing this is your one chance for a long time to speak to them?
And on top of that, they aren't even that talkative; yes, they are Johan's support, so yes, they will call out to him in duels, but they mostly stay quiet, only having a line here and there. It isn't as if there's some constant line of chatter between Johan and them.
Yeaaaaaaaaaaaah I'm just gonna go ahead and call bullshit on this one. Let's list all the flaws that I know without having to actively go digging back in:
Oh, right, and let's not forget that he spends, what, half of the season as a possessed damsel in distress, thanks to Yubel?
Whether or not you consider these specific things flaws, they are flaws. And remember that these are the ones that I just know from talking to a friend who plays him; there's probably more you could find if you dug back into the episodes!
...Sorry, I'm having trouble seeing where the Mary-Sue aspect here is? If every single person liked him despite conflicting personalities, then I could see it. If every single person liked him despite being an awful person, I could see it. But the thing is, neither of these apply.
The characters like Johan because Johan is a likable person. Johan is friendly, he's motherly, he's nice, and he's kind. He's a bit guarded, sure, but he's a sweet person to be around. And as strange as this might seem, even in real life, likable people tend to be liked. That's just kind of how people work, real or fake.
And Johan doesn't even have everyone liking him; Judai's own friends tend to side-eye him quite a bit. So... yeah.
...Uh, I admit it's been a while since I looked into that specific part of the series, but I'm pretty sure none of this is correct. In fact, the majority of my memories from that part is a focus on Judai. Judai's choices, Judai's actions, Judai's past, Judai's feelings. Johan certainly was a part of those feelings and a reason he did some of what he did, but in the end, it was about Judai. Even once he was corrupted into Haou/The Supreme King, it was still about him, wasn't it?
So how on earth did Johan usurp that? The fact that it's all but said the two have romantic feelings for each other (just look at the past lives of Yubel and Judai, then what Yubel tells Judai during that one duel) means that, yeah, obviously, Johan's going to have a bigger part to play than Judai's friends. You would feel the exact same if it was someone you were in love with.
But even if you don't believe they were romantically involved, it's clear that Judai feels a deeper connection to Johan than he does his other friends. And even Judai becomes biased in a case like that; that's how real people are. If you have a best friend in danger, you're going to be far more obsessed and frantic and focused than if it was just a sometimes friend; sure, you might be just as determined to save both of them, but your own feelings bias you. Again... this is how humans work.
No, we don't, and that's horrible and awful! But here's the thing... that's not Johan's fault. That's not the character's fault.
That's the fault of the writers. It's entirely, squarely on them that we don't know what Johan was a chosen of, that we know only that he was chosen and nothing else. It's entirely their fault that this was never explained.
But it isn't his. When a writer forgets or drops something, that doesn't automatically make it that character's fault. It's still squarely on the writer; this isn't a reflection of Johan at all, regardless of whether or not you want to blame him for it.
And don't forget that Judai is also a chosen one. So was Harry Potter. So was Frodo Baggins. So was, oh, I don't know, something like 80% of all characters in media? It's a thing that's used, it's a thing that happens, and happens a lot. Just having that trait alone doesn't count towards Mary-Sueness at all, not even close.
So... yeah. Sorry, guys, but these reasons really don't apply. Whatever else he might be, Johan is not really a Mary-Sue. If you have any other reasons you think he is, feel free to let me know and I'll look up some stuff on those, but until then...
Sorry~, but I'm afraid Johan Andersen is just a character with a couple of unfortunate hiccups, nothing more.
He's introduced suddenly and immediately gets in with everyone else!
This one, I'll give you. Johan's introduction and mingling is rather rapid, and I won't deny that. I will note, however, that it's not strange; a lot of new characters just sort of get randomly tossed in to get right to the action. It generally only tends to be an actual problem if it's with a character flawed in other ways, but it is something that's kind of off. I won't argue that.
He's immediately Judai's best friend!
This one, however, I will not give you, and for a couple of reasons. The first one is actually simple; namely, that this is actually truth in television. In real life, real people can meet, be together for a couple hours, and be so close friends you'd think they'd known each other years. I should know. I used to have a friend or two like this. It's uncommon, but it's completely possible. Sure, it can be used totally wrong, but it's not here. Why do I know that? Because of the second reason.
We have episodes and episodes of proof that Judai makes friends that fast. Look at the episodes, watch him, and notice that Judai basically all but instantly makes friends. Even with people who treat him rudely, he considers them as his friends. Something like this then is not only possible, but honestly pretty plausible; with how rapidly he makes normal friends, if he clicks with someone like he so very clearly does with Johan, it would be strange if they weren't that close after a short time.
Pegasus regards him as one of the strongest duelists he's known!/Johan's never shown to lose onscreen except when he lost his dragon!
First of all, that's not entirely true. Yes, Pegasus might have regarded Johan as strong, but most of the focus on Johan's strength is through his deck; which, of course, is why it fell apart when Rainbow Dragon was gone. Yes, he is the highest ranking of the most notoriously strength-based branch of Duel Academia, but again... while he certainly has skill, it's pretty clearly hinted that a lot more of it weighs on his actual deck.
And that's not a bad thing, necessarily; in any game, skill is only a part of what you can do. Familiarity with the tools you have, on top of the strength of those tools, can and often do make a big part of it. But it means that the credit Johan has is only partially his; even Johan himself accepts and admits that, pointing out that he'd be nothing without his "family". Hell, even the people talking about his strength talk more about his deck most of the time.
As for the onscreen thing... of course we haven't seen his losses. Do you really think they have the time or patience to show us every single duel anyone ever does? Or that we'd be anything but bored by seeing the routine losses that didn't have something big wrapped up in them? No, of course not. And that's why, much like sleeping, bathing, using the bathroom, or other routine things, we left to assume and infer that it happens unless told otherwise. Because otherwise, we'd be bored out of our skulls.
On top of that, we see him dueling pleasantly maaaaaybe twice. Every other duel is for his very life and survival, and we see him struggling and clawing for the wins, on top of coming out of it hurt or suffering... so, you know, those are the kind of things he really can't lose without plot repercussions. It's no different from being saved in cutscenes in games because your PC isn't supposed to die yet.
His Duel Monsters have more personality and are more interactive than anyone's! Even Judai's!
But are they really? We're told in the past that Judai has been able to hear the voices of Duel Monsters since his childhood and his casual chatting with Winged Kuriboh makes it pretty clear that Judai clearly still talks to them even now, just offscreen (see above about showing us every mundane thing that happens). It's easy enough to figure out that they're probably quiet in duels so that Judai can concentrate...
...but Johan, on the other hand, only sees these other spirits in duels. Only Ruby can manifest in a spirit form to him, and she can't talk. Doesn't it make sense that his "family" would thus be far more likely to talk in the one place they can -- in duels -- when they clearly can't talk to him just through or from the cards like Judai's monsters clearly can?
I mean, think of it like this way. You have two friends, one who you see every day and one who you see once a month. You go to the movies with these two friends, one at a time. Aren't you more likely to be quiet and watch the movie with the first one, knowing you can talk to them later, but more likely to be talkative and chat to the second one, knowing this is your one chance for a long time to speak to them?
And on top of that, they aren't even that talkative; yes, they are Johan's support, so yes, they will call out to him in duels, but they mostly stay quiet, only having a line here and there. It isn't as if there's some constant line of chatter between Johan and them.
Johan has no flaws!
Yeaaaaaaaaaaaah I'm just gonna go ahead and call bullshit on this one. Let's list all the flaws that I know without having to actively go digging back in:
- He's very emotional, meaning that he can be easily riled up or gotten angry to make mistakes.
- He will willingly put himself in danger just to avoid methods that he sees as "dishonorable", regardless of the risk.
- He's got a pretty decent idiot streak.
- He pulls pranks on others.
- He has trouble making his own decisions or figuring out what to do without encouragement.
- He's not very quick to adapt and will often obsess and worry over how to counter any trap you set.
- He can be insanely reckless.
Oh, right, and let's not forget that he spends, what, half of the season as a possessed damsel in distress, thanks to Yubel?
Whether or not you consider these specific things flaws, they are flaws. And remember that these are the ones that I just know from talking to a friend who plays him; there's probably more you could find if you dug back into the episodes!
Everybody likes him!
...Sorry, I'm having trouble seeing where the Mary-Sue aspect here is? If every single person liked him despite conflicting personalities, then I could see it. If every single person liked him despite being an awful person, I could see it. But the thing is, neither of these apply.
The characters like Johan because Johan is a likable person. Johan is friendly, he's motherly, he's nice, and he's kind. He's a bit guarded, sure, but he's a sweet person to be around. And as strange as this might seem, even in real life, likable people tend to be liked. That's just kind of how people work, real or fake.
And Johan doesn't even have everyone liking him; Judai's own friends tend to side-eye him quite a bit. So... yeah.
Johan received TONS and TONS of focus! He overwrote every established character! It was all about him!
...Uh, I admit it's been a while since I looked into that specific part of the series, but I'm pretty sure none of this is correct. In fact, the majority of my memories from that part is a focus on Judai. Judai's choices, Judai's actions, Judai's past, Judai's feelings. Johan certainly was a part of those feelings and a reason he did some of what he did, but in the end, it was about Judai. Even once he was corrupted into Haou/The Supreme King, it was still about him, wasn't it?
So how on earth did Johan usurp that? The fact that it's all but said the two have romantic feelings for each other (just look at the past lives of Yubel and Judai, then what Yubel tells Judai during that one duel) means that, yeah, obviously, Johan's going to have a bigger part to play than Judai's friends. You would feel the exact same if it was someone you were in love with.
But even if you don't believe they were romantically involved, it's clear that Judai feels a deeper connection to Johan than he does his other friends. And even Judai becomes biased in a case like that; that's how real people are. If you have a best friend in danger, you're going to be far more obsessed and frantic and focused than if it was just a sometimes friend; sure, you might be just as determined to save both of them, but your own feelings bias you. Again... this is how humans work.
Johan's a chosen, but we never get to know of what! Or why!
No, we don't, and that's horrible and awful! But here's the thing... that's not Johan's fault. That's not the character's fault.
That's the fault of the writers. It's entirely, squarely on them that we don't know what Johan was a chosen of, that we know only that he was chosen and nothing else. It's entirely their fault that this was never explained.
But it isn't his. When a writer forgets or drops something, that doesn't automatically make it that character's fault. It's still squarely on the writer; this isn't a reflection of Johan at all, regardless of whether or not you want to blame him for it.
And don't forget that Judai is also a chosen one. So was Harry Potter. So was Frodo Baggins. So was, oh, I don't know, something like 80% of all characters in media? It's a thing that's used, it's a thing that happens, and happens a lot. Just having that trait alone doesn't count towards Mary-Sueness at all, not even close.
So... yeah. Sorry, guys, but these reasons really don't apply. Whatever else he might be, Johan is not really a Mary-Sue. If you have any other reasons you think he is, feel free to let me know and I'll look up some stuff on those, but until then...
Sorry~, but I'm afraid Johan Andersen is just a character with a couple of unfortunate hiccups, nothing more.